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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  November 27, 2011 11:00am-12:00pm PST

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send them back and let them stand in line. thanks for sharing. that is it for us in washington. "fox news sunday" is up next. i'm shannon bream. captioned by closed captioning services, inc. >> chris: i'm chris wallace. with just over a month until the first votes are cast, one candidate is going all in in new hampshire. will the granite state deliver for a long shot? we continue our 2012 one on one series of interviews with the republican presidential candidate joh jon huntsman. then the super committee fails. now, there is a legislative mess to clean up. what is next for congress as it tries to put the country's fiscal house back in order? we will ask two senate leaders, illinois democrat dick durbin and arizona republican jon kyl. plus, newt gingrich's frontrunner standing takes a hit. we will ask our sunday panel if
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a possible missed step on illegal immigration could cost gingrich in iowa. and our power player of the week offers a patriotic idea for christmas shopping all right now on "fox news sunday." >> chris: and hello again from fox news in washington. well, we are finally entering the home stretch in the runup to real people casting real votes in the republican presidential race. continuing our 2012 one on one series of interviews, we are joined now by former utah governor jon huntsman who comes to us from whitesman, new hampshire, a state where he has been spending a lot of time. governor, welcome to "fox news sunday." >> welcome from new hampshire. >> chris: there you go. let's start with the polls. looking first nationally you are still trailing the field all the way back as you can see there at 2% in last place but in new hampshire you are starting to make gains in
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fourth place at 9% though you are still according to this poll at least far behind mitt romney. you say that defeat is not an option in new hampshire. you have held more than 100 events in that state. don't you have to win there? >> well, we have to bet market expectations and we have a message that will allow us to beat market expectations, chris. people here want to talk about the economic deficit and talk about our trust deficit. yesterday we had two town hall meetings here in the western far reaches of the state. today we will have three town hall meetings. preseason is over and we are now in the final stretch. i like our position. i like where we stand in the poll. more importantly, the people of this great state love an underdog and i'm an underdog right now and if you can be an underdog and have a message that begins to connect with people on the ground you can make things happen. do i believe we going to beat market expectations in new hampshire? i absolutely believe we will. and that will translate downmarket to south carolina
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and then ultimately to florida. i like our position here, chris. >> chris: you talk about market expectations. perhaps the huntsman stock took a hit today because the new hampshire union leader perhaps the most influencial, the biggest newspaper in the state of new hampshire has this morning endorsed newt gingrich. isn't that a setback for you, sir? >> well, no, it once again proves, chris, how fluid and unpredictable, new hampshire is. people are just beginning to pay attention and coalesce around the candidates. a month ago for newt gingrich to have been in the running to capture the manchester union leader endorsement would have been unthinkable. i will think it reflects the fluidity and unpredictability of the race right now. if you are talking about stocks and i like the free market i have to refer you to in trade where we have gone from the
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back of the pack to number three which i think they do a good job forecasting what the future trends are going to be in this race. we are in a solid position here in new hampshire but you have to have a message which resonates with the voters here. we have a message that resonates and a background that speaks to job creation and the ability to expand the economy and a background that speaks to addressing the deficit as well. >> chris: your record, let's talk big picture. your record as governor of utah was that of a strong conservative but your strategy in this race has been to run and i put this kind inform quotes as a relative moderate. you are the one who was saying that we need to pull not all but most of our troops out of afghanistan sooner than anybody else on that stage except for ron paul. you are the one who has been tweaking the other candidates saying that you believe in science issues like global warming and evolution. when the republican party is moving and i think it clearly
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is to the right, perhaps fueled by the tea party, does it make practical political sense to position yourself as the most centrist candidate in the race? >> listen i'm not positioning myself at all. i'm simply drawing upon where i have been as a leader. i'm not going to con tort myself into a pretzel and become something that i am not. i have an established record as governor of the states of utah. i have a record for my service overseas. when people look at my service as governor they will find what may surprise some people. i'm prolife and always have been. prosecond amendment and always have been. i'm progrowth. we delivered healthcare reform without a mandate. i signed the second voucher for education in this entire country. when people begin to look at my record they may have discounted us early on chris when i worked for this administration as u.s. ambassador to china. some people may have thrown us
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to the back of the pack but now they are saying i get the part about this huntsman guy who puts country first i think we can relate to that. further reflex on my record i think it is no surprise that people are giving us maybe a first look finally and as they look at our track record of service and my years as governor they will come to the conclusion that i have a conservative record on the issues that are absolutely applicable to this country and where we need to go. >> chris: let's talk about the issues. newt gingrich a lot of people thought got into trouble this week when said he would support legal stat fuss for long time illegals i this country. rick perry got into trouble for saying that he supported in state tuition for the children of illegals. in fact, you support both those w >> welport first andsir? foremost securing the border. i don't think this discussion has any credibility or intellectual honesty at all until we can actually take the
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first step. >> chris: records are records and the fact is that you are long on records supportth the idea which was a fact in utah of instate tuition for children of illegals. >> that's right. that's right. that was supported by the people of my state. it was supported by the legislature an i supported it s well. i'm not running from that at all. we have to be honest with the first step this country has to take and that is to secure the border. i would work with the four border state governors and ensuring between fencing and technology and boots on the ground we can get the job done. it is completely doable and once we build credibility with the people of this country we can move on in addressing the needs, the reality of 11 million or 12 million people living in the shadows in this country. >> chris: turn to budget issues in the wake of the failure of the super committee you now say that the road map to debt reduction is the boles simpson
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commission which had a $4 trillion fix over the course of the next decade. let me ask about one aspect of that because the commission called for are $1 trillion in increased tax revenue. they were -- they said lower all the rates as low as 28% as the top rate but also eliminate almost all of the deductions and loopholes and take 100 billion ads year for ten years, $1 trillion in total and use that as added tax revenue to try to shrink the deficit. would you support that part of bowles simpson? >> my plan is not simpson boles. i took their tax reform measure which i thought was a good one but my plan for debt and spending is the ryan plan. i'm the only candidate that embraced in total the ryan plan. i think the super committee is a joke, they are targeting $1.5 trillion ease serri ten years. 2.5% of total spending over ten
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years. is not even a serious attempt at all. i think what ryan is talking about with $6.2 trillion cut out of the budget over ten years is exactly where this country needs to be. we have to get down to 19% spending as a percentage of gdp to get anywhere near a sustainable level. the simpson bowles report i thought represented a good body of work. i don't agree with the tax increase portion. i looked at their tax reform proposal and combined it with what i did. >> chris: governor, i hate to interrupt but we have limited time. their tax reform proposal, yes, it called for lower rates but also called for taking some of the eliminated deductions what they call tax expenditures and using that. >> that's right. >> chris: you are sort of the truth teller or position yourself as that on the stage saying that some of your rivals are engaging in political theater. isn't it political theaterrer to say i want a solution, just
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given the political realities in this country that has no tax revenue increase? >> what i'm calling for on tax reform, chris, is a phasing out of the loopholes and deductions on the individual income tax side and phasing out of the corporate welfare and subsidies on the corporate side which allows us to lower the rate and broaden the base and simplify. >> chris: but you would be revenue neutral. >> it would be a revenue neutral exercise. reinvesting it into the tax code which would lower the rate on the individual side and corporate side is exactly bahar what this country needs. we haven't touched tax reform in a meaningful way since 1986 and it is high time we got doing it. >> chris: i want to get to two issues with you. first of all, foreign policy which is one of our strong suits injuries the pakistani nil terri says that nato
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strikes hit two border check points killing at least 24 of their soldiers. they ordered the u.s. to shut down one air base at drone operations at a key air base and closed the two main supply routes into afghanistan which supply about 40% of nato equipment and supplies. what would president huntsman do in this new serious situation with pakistan? >> first of all, offer condolences on the losses of the 25 pakistani soldiers. second of all, i would recognize exactly what the u.s. pakistani relationship has become which is merely a transactional relationship. i would figure out what the contours of the relationship really are and what we he can expect from the pakistani government realizeing that the politics playing out domestically in pakistan are complicated between the islamist side and the government and the military and the isied and i think our expectations have to be low in
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terms of what we can get out of the relationship. i think we thought we could get more and we have been proven wrong time and time again and then tie whatever aid money we are giving to pakistan if they deserve any at all to access to a drone base, keeping the supply lines open, working rigorously with us on counter terrorism and if that isn't going to work i'm going look for a new partner in the region because we he do have an interest in southwest asia and that is a counter terror effort. a robust counter terror effort. we need to be collecting intelligence and knock them down where they stand up. this is clearly in america's interest to do it right. >> chris: a political group called americans elect is bound and determined to put a third candidate on the ballot in the 2012 election. have you talked to any member of that organization? >> i haven't talked to any member of the organization. i'm a republican. i'm running as a republican and i fully intend to be running as a republican. >> chris: well, you have been very critical of president
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obama's policies and you have been very critical of mitt romney's what you call flips on issues not to say that is going to be the race but the question is can you flatly state right now and some say this is a game we play but can you flatly say right now that you will support the republican nominee and that you will not run as an independent? >> well, i'm running as a republican. that is where i am today and where i have always been and where i fully expect to be during this race. >> chris: just to play the game one last time i'm running as a republican is not a denial, sir. can you flatly state you will support the republican nominee? >> i am running as a republican and will support the republican nominee. i stated that before and ile state it again for you. >> chris: thank you, governor. thank you so much for coming in and talking with us on this holiday weekend, sir. safe travels on o the campaign trail. >> thank you, chris, i appreciate that. >> chris: up next, the super
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committee fails to make a deal to reduce the nation's debt. what happens now and will congress extend the payroll tax cut and unemployment insurance? we will get answers from two senate leaders, after the break. while some fiber ads use super models, metamucil uses super hard working psyllium fiber, which gels to remove unsexy waste and reduce cholesterol. taking psyllium fiber won't make you a model but you should feel a little more super. metamucil. down with cholesterol. but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ deep breath] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth!
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>> chris: with the super committee failing to make a deal to rehe deuce the country's debt a number of spending cuts and tax increases set to take effect unless congress acts. joining us are both parties, second ranking leaders in the senate. illinois democrat dick durbin is in chicago and arizona republican jon kyl in phoenix. gentlemen, before we discuss congress and the debt i want to ask you both about the foreign
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policy issue i was is just discussing with governor huntsman and that is the latest breach in relations with pakistan. the pakistan is say the u.s. and nato have to stop drone operations from one air base in their country and they are also cutting off the two major supply routes for nato into afghanistan. senatortart with you, senator kyl, what would you do about it? >> a lot of diplomacy that has to occur and it has to be tough diplomacy that they need to understand that our support for them financially is dependent on their cooperation with us. it is not the kind of situation where you can cut off all assistance. one quick story. two weeks before 9/11 2001 i was part of an intelligence trip to afghanistan. president musharraf made the comment that because we had cut
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off economic support before the officer corps that was coming up behind him had not been educated in great britain or the united states as had he and his fellow senior officers and he was concerned about the muslim influence the radical influence of those young officers as they were coming up the ranks. he said that was a mistake. couple of weeks after we got back we helped to restore the military contacts. the point being that it is very important to maintain the relationship for the long haul. >> chris: senator durbin, what should we do? >> first, i'm deeply saddened that 24 or 25 pakistani soldiers were killed by nato drones and i think we have expressed those condolences. imagine how we would feel if it had been 24 american soldiers killed by pakistani forces at this moment. secondly, keep in mind as difficult as it is to find our way through this diplomatic
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marasse and the complicit of parts of pakistan our soldiers are caught right in the middle this of at a time when they are trying to bring peace to the region. i think it is an argument of moving us to the day when our american soldiers come home. a terrible theater we been unable to find a clear path to reducing terrorism. we have to leave it to afghan forces to meet the challenge and bring american forces home. >> go back to the debt and start with the items that run out at the end of this year, not 2012. let's take a look at them. this is unless they are extended. first the payroll tax cut. cost, $112 billion to extend. if it lapses a family making $50,000 a year will pay $1,000 more in taxes. senator durbin, democrats plan to bring this measure to extend the payroll tax cut up this week but you are going to pay for it by -- with a surtax on
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millionaires. that may be a smart political move but there is no chance it is going to pass. it should pass. look at the bottom line here. i think it is closer to $1,500 for the average family. if we don't provide the tax relief that president obama asked for families see an increase in taxes. working families, lower and middle income families and those at the top who enjoyed tax cuts that have been generous for a long period of time can afford a slight increase to that we don't add to the deficit. help the working families struggling pay check to pay check and ask the wealthiest to pay a small increase in taxes. >> chris: senator kyl, they are demanding that an extension of the payroll tax cuts be paid for. but you you haven't done that in the past for the bush tax cuts and one i would like to
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know why the difference between paying for one and not paying for the other and what do you think are the chances for a deal before the end of this year because it runs out at the end of this year to extend the payroll taxes? >> we will have to deal with the unemployment insurance with payroll taxes and a lot of other items before the end of the year. the problem here is that the payroll tax doesn't go into general revenue, it supports social security and you can't keep extending the payroll tax holiday and have a secure social security. that is the first problem. the second problem is that by taxing the people who provide the jobs you put off the day that we have economic recovery and job creation in this country and that is precisely what the democratic plan would do. it would hit those people, the small businesses who we all acknowledge are the ones who create the jobs coming out of economic difficulty and that would be a big mistake. the primary object here is job creation. >> chris: if i may, senator kyl
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just to cut this short, are you saying no deal on extending payroll tax cuts? >> the payroll tax holiday has not stimulated job creation. before the end of the year we will have discussions about what we are going to do on all of these different program. >> chris: go ahead briefly, senator durbin. >> i can't believe that. at a time when working families in this country are struggling pay check to pay check when we need them to have the resources to buy things in our economy to create wealth and profitability and more jobs, that the republican position is they will raise the payroll tax on working families? i think that just defies logic. what we should do is to help these working families struggle through. president obama has shown leadership on this and now the republicans are walking away from lower and middle income families because they don't want to impose a small a, small tax on the wealthiest people in america. listen, we can save social security, i agree with jon kyl,
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let's pay for the payroll tax cut by imposing a slight increase in taxes on the wealthiest people and replenish the social security trust. >> chris: let me give you a chance to respond to that. i also want to ask you if you will briefly to respond to this because economists say there is a real impact if you don't extend the payroll tax cuts and unemployment insurance and let's put it up on the screen. they he estimate and both run out january 1. the failure to extend the payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits will cut gdped growth 1 to 2% next year and cost more than half a million jobs. you question the stimulative effect but according to these economist there's is a danger if congress doesn't extend those you throw the country back into a recession. >> i don't know who those economists are. i just read a piece by a respected economist who says that isn't true.
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when you are in difficult economic times as we are and you need to put people back to work as well as dealing with the deficit, how do you do that? by enabling the economy to grow. the best way to hurt economic growth is to impose more taxes on the people who do the hiring. as a result, republicans have said don't raise the existing tax rates on those who do the hiring. instead, i hope we can get into this explore the kinds of things that we did during the deficit reduction committee work to reform the tax code, eliminate preferences, credits and deductions or reduce their value significantly on the upper income taxpayers so that they end up paying more but not true a tax increase on the rates either on capital gains, dividends or on the upper marginal rates on the people who create the jobs. >> chris: you have the short-term problem which is you have to deal with the payroll tax cut on unemployment insurance, the amt, alternative minimum tax, the doc fix which run out the end of this year
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and the long-term issue and i would like to address that. is bowles simpson, a lot of people say the presidential commission which the president walked away from had the right idea and you were a member of that and voted for it. two aspects to it. one they said lower the rates dramatically but eliminate the deductions, the loopholes. we will take a trillion dollars in tax expenditures and we will contribute that to the $4 trillion fix of the debt reduction. the fly flip side is they said we want to see $500 trillion in entitlement reform. cutting benefits. raising eligibility ages. would you go for all of that again? >> i can tell you that that is the basic guideline as i see it to reaching the kind of stable growth situation creating jobs now and reducing our long-term deficit. to paraphrase one of our former
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colleagues, i new bowles and simpson. i worked with them on the commit iand what was proposed by the republicans on the super committee was not even close to the bowles simpson proposal. what we have got to do is establish the basics. $2 in cuts for every dollar in revenue. now, let's do that in a thoughtful way that creates jobs now. does not handicap or damage medicare and social security and medicaid in the long run and creates the kind of approach that is balanced. we didn't get that out of the super committee. i thank them for their work but we have to really strive for that. >> chris: let me ask you directly because one of the big hangups is the bush tax cuts. simpson bowles said we are going to lower all the rates and the top rate maybe down to 28% but get a trillion dollars in tax expenditures. are you willing to say forget about ending the bush tax cuts we will lower rates dramatically if we get the tax expenditures?
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>> chris, you have to look at it in the total context. and i'm not dodging your question. the bush tax cuts are generous to the highest earning americans. we don't want to disadvantage the working class middle class families around america. put tax reform together that gives them a fighting chance. thraves commit innocent in the gang of six and in bowles simpson to at least maintain if not improving the progressivity of the tax code. that means giving working families a fighting chance. i hope we can establish that as one of principles of future deficit reduction. >> chris: i will go at this with you a slightly different way because there is a narrative out there that you and other republicans on the supercommittee were scared ann outside player and that is grover norquist and his antitax pledge and you just wouldn't give on the bush tax cuts.
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norquist said he had to yank you into line. i repeat, it is what he said. i call kyl what did you say, what do you mean, how can we work together on this he said adopting the tone of a teacher colding a second grader as he recalled the conversation. two questions. one is, that story true? and two, are you and other republicans some what -- somehow cowed by grover norquist and his antitax pledge. >> the answer to both questions is absolutely not. the proof in the pudding is the so called toomey would have raised more than the tax reform necessary to reduce the rates and would have applied that to deficit reduction. grover was not happy with that. we did it anyway. this was the point. the bowles simpson commission said raise whatever revenue you can and apply it to reducing
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rates. we that in the plan by reducing the value of all of the tax cuts and reductions that you spoke of and the plan would have reduced the top rate to 28% and every other rate by 15 percentage points as a result of which we could accomplish both goals. what you can't do is raise more than $250 billion and that is why that was the amount that we raised above that necessary to reduce the tax rate. we accomplishd that in the plan. >> chris: we have only 30 seconds left to answer this. an awful lot of people say, you know, we talked about grover norquist. a lot of people say that president obama was missing in action during the key negotiations here. wasn't that a failure in leadership on his part? >> not at all. those that know the facts realize with vice president biden the president made over tour and twice the president negotiated directly with
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speaker boehner. >> you're talking about last summer. >> this was a congressional undertaking and the republicans made it clear if president obama weighed in it would become another presidential issue. they don't want to give the president any credit for achieving things we knew that if he came into the super committee negotiations it wouldn't be constructive on the republican slide but we know where the president stands. he wants substantial deficit reduction but first get america back to work. >> we have to leave it there. thank you both so much for coming in. we will stay on top of this story. it obviously isn't going away. up next, is newt gingrich takes the lead in the polls and promptly creates a problem for himself on immigration. our sunday panel addresses the damage and where do things stand in iowa, when we come back. [ male announcer ] wake up, sleepyheads. there are tools to be had. this weekend, the sawdust-makers, the hole-drillers, and the get-it-done machines all cost less. a lot less.
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i'm not path for citizenship but i am for path to legality to those people whose ties are so deep in america that it would truly be tragic to try to rip their family apart. >> chris: newt gingrich doing damage control after saying he supports giving legal status to some illegal immigrants. time for our weekly group. bill kristol. charles lane from the washington post. former state department
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official liz cheney and jeff zeleny national political correspondent for the new york time. in a debate on tuesday gingrich said he favors allowing some long time law abiding illegals to have some legal status and not to split up families. he had this view for a long time but quite frankly now that he is a frontrunner people are starting to pay attention. jeff as someone almost living in iowa these days hop much damage did he do? >> i was in iowa the day after the debate and republicans were talking about that almost exclusively. a lot of the leaders think that he did a considerable damage to himself that that is not the position that he wants to stake out. other more long time supporters will say he can do a better job explaining h his position than governor perry. it is not appearance ples to apples comparing his immigration comments to governor perry's comments in
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terms of how it worked out for him. at the end of the day he needs to get to iowa and explain the position. he did it in florida over the weekend where he happened to be spending the holiday. the bigger problem for gingrich is he does not still have an organization. at the end of the day you to get people to come to the iowa caucuses. people think he is a great debater but he still is operating without much support around him and in a case like this the romney campaign you can be sure is going to hit him with direct mail pieces, phone pieces on immigration. we'll see how he responds to it. >> chris: let me ask you about that, bill, bus gi because gins opponents are treating this as a major blunder. mitt romney said this idea of giving legal status is amnesty and a magnet that encourages more people to come across the border and michell michele bacd this shows gingrich is the most
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liberal candidate when it comes to that issue and they clearly think it as weakness. >> mitt romney had the exact same position four year a's go. he can explain why newt gingrich is no you wrong to take a position he took four years ago. newt gingrich said i'm going get attacked for this. he went out o of his way i would say to propose this. showing because he does not want to run as a presidential nominee of a party that locke ridiculous on the immigration issue. michele bachmann is trying to stay alive in iowa. is mitt romney's position we will send back 11 or 12 million people in the country illegally including 19 million or 2 million who have been here for 20 or 25 years and whose kids are citizens? i don't believe romney believes that for a minute and i think gingrich is willing to run the risk. >> chris: there are a lot of times that politicians don't believe things but say it because it is politically
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convenient and helpful. the question is to a certain degree not what is good policy but is it going to hurt gingrich and a fight that he didn't need to take on at this particular moment? >> it shows a certain amount of confidence he was willing to take it on. he has never been one to play is safe. i think he thinks he is doing the republican party a favor but moving is it into a more sustainable position in the general election and in terms of the actual being serious about public poly. >> chris: charles? >> you use the term politically convenient and this shows the distance we have traveled in terms of what republicans think is in their political interest to say about immigration. this position newt staked out was in a letter supporting president bush's policy toward illegal immigrants in this country for a long time and the theory was republicans had to build an hispanic voting base. that was one of karl rove's big projects. we see what happens whistling at the runs up against an iowa
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caucus electorate. >> bush did push immigration reform, comprehensive immigration reform in the second term. if went no where. republicans opposed them right then. >> i think this is not going to be a major issue for newt, major damage done here. his immigration policy is something he has been laying out now for a year in front of conservative audiences. i will think they responded favorably to it. i think on the organization side you will see new offices opening up. he has a larger operation in south carolina now than any other candidate. at the end of the day i think what is really interesting is it looks clearly now like the republican contest is going to come down to a battle between mitt romney and newt gingrich. as a republican i feel good about that and proud that these are the two people both whom have extensive and very interesting backgrounds. both bring much more are experience to the race and potentially to the job than president obama had in 2008
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when was elected and either one of them would bring much better policies in my opinion in terms of bringing us out of this economic crisis. >> chris: switch topics off gingrich. actually we will stay on gingrich now, that i think about it. the endorsement by the union leader. when william lobe was a publisher it had enormous influence. you can tell me how much influence does the paper have. >> i think we always knew that they wouldn't endorse romney. this is the newspaper that four years ago ran front page editorials every day for seven days against him last time. it separates nude from the rest of the field. this looks like it is narrowing to a romney gingrich fight. what i'm watching for is when does the romney campaign begin engaging speer gingrich. they ri ignored him for months.
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i think it is a big deal important for him in the short-term. endorsements don't win elections but it helps give them credibility. >> interesting, the publisher of the union leader says we don't just endorse one day. we endorse every day which means day after day after day between now and january 10 they will be pushing newt gingrich. how big a deal to you think it is in new hampshire and let's face it romney cannot afford to lose new hampshire. >> the voters seem to make up their own minds and ignore mainstream and liberal elite opinion and conservative elet opinion. they liked herman cain for awhile and then fell off cain. a lot of republicanners seem to have decided they are open for the case for newt gipping rick. a lot of i have talked to personally in the last week or two sense i'm traveling. they sort of have the sense as coming down to romney versus gingrich and don't know who they are going to vote for. i think that is probably true
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of a lot of iowa voters. they will be more debates. oh just think there are legitimate criticisms of gingrich but the idea that romney is going to attack gingrich from the right and make him less of a conservative than mitt romney. i think that is not going to be credible and i think that will look desperate. >> chris: we have to take a break. one of those debates is the fox debate in sioux city, iowa, on december 15. it will be the last debate before the iowa caucuses on january 3. so be he sure to watch. we are going to take a break now. when we come back, a super failure as legislative gridlock once again rules the day in washington. [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation, so i used my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories. a new belt. some nylons.
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don't vote to raise taxes on working americans during the holidays. put the country before parties. put money back in the pockets of working families. >> to this day they have never given us their proposal for the kind of structural reforms that we need to bring the entitlement programs under control. >> chris: president obama arguing to extend the payroll tax cut and gop supercommittee member calling for serious entitlement reform as both sides try to frame the debate going into the 2012 election. we are back now with the panel. charles, let's start with the immediate problem what runs out at the end of this year and what congress is or isn't going to do about extending the payroll tax cut and unemployment, insurance benefits. i was a little surprised that
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nor jon kyl seem was as tough as he was and seemed to indicate that he would oppose the tax cuts. >> you saw dick durbin pounce on that point because the politics this of let's put the budget and economics to side. their position is we want to give the average guy a thousand dollars. the republicans don't. and in politics i think it is generally safer to be on the side of giving money away. notwithstanding the fact that we do have this big deficit and the democrats have maneuvered the republicans strangely enough into the position of looking like they are against a tax cut. jon kyl's explanation is we don't want to offset that by raising taxes on job creators but the democrats can portray that as protecting millionaires and so forth and on net this dilemma for thell meetings ma republicans. it will be interested to see if
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the line that jon kyl staked out here ising. is going to hold up. >> chris: do the white house and democrats and dick durbin looked like the wolf devouring the lamb, not to say kyl is a lamb. it is a political advantage for him to portray the republicans as fighting for the bush tax cuts for the wealthy but you willing to let the payroll tax cuts disappear. is that a problem for americans? >> that is exactly what we have seen president obama and the democrats do now for many months and particularly with committee. the president of the united states has put no serious plan on the table for dealing withen titlements which is the biggest challenge that we face economically right now. the president of the united states i don't think made a single phone call to the people on the super committee. i talked to one republican member who said he reached out numerous times to the white house to say we need a deal and
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was completely given the back of his hand. there was no effort here. the president seems to have made the calculation he will let the next 13 months of the american economy slide for the sake of his own political benefit. >> chris: i'm asking will it work. >> i think people understand absolutely the kind of crisis that we are facing and when you have a president of the united states who has walked away and refused to deal with something that both democrats and republicans have come together to say this really matters, it is very difficult for kne me te that the american people are going to buy into it and give him another term. i'm concerned about what happens in the next 13 months here and whether or not we will be able to actually stop the slide in the economy with the lack of leadership. >> this is and you can argue with it's cynikal and principled. the house has presented various
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jobs bills and let the republicans vote them down. they are going to put up this week extending the payroll tax cut and let republicans control that. who has the political high ground here. political high ground, not policy high ground. >> the political high ground is to be determined. i guess we knew before but this specifically frames the argument tightly for the president and for republicans but also trickles down to a house and senate races. all of 2012 will be sort of framed on this. i think in the short-term of the democrats feel they are in a good position here and they feel that they boxed republicans in. we'll see what happens this week. i don't know if senator kyl was speaking for himself or all republicans. he did say we as charles mentioned earl jerry sandusky. i think that wil that -- mentid earlier. >> chris: i don't think he would have gotten out there and said what he said if mitch mcconnell wasn't with him on that. >> but we have all been out and
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vacation. >> chris: it is the turkey talking. >> washington is the big loser in all of this. people just are absolutely frustrated and think that the super committee, the congress, the president, they can't do anything. it is mucked up. >> chris: thank you for saying it that way. bill, let me ask you about a different aspect which maybe favors the republicans over the democrats and that is the automatic trigger. if they don't do anything about the 1.2 trillion in deficit reduction by a year from now, the end of december 2012, the automatic trigger kicks. $600 trillion in cuts to the pentagon spending which the defense secretary says would threaten our national security. says i will veto any measure that undoes this. find 1.2 trillion in deficit reduction some where. is that conceivably a problem for the democrats they are in a position of seeming to jeopardize national security? >> it as problem in so far as
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in january the president will have to present a budget which i suppose according to his current rhetoric will embody the $45 billion i think it is in pentagon cuts for fiscal year 2013 which is a massive one year slash in the budget which is devastating to the national security. is he going to show the cuts in january of 202 or say we don't need to do this if we do other things to reduce the deference sit. on unemployment insurance republicans will not go the way jon kyl indicated. they will not get into the position of casting a party line vote for raising taxes on working americans. speaker are boehner is not going to to it. i don't think the senate republicans are going to want to do it. they may split on the issue but republicans are not going to be the party that would vote for -- we maybe should have done this 150 or 11 months ago but i don't believe the
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republican party is going to vote to raise payroll taxes. >> chris: the support of the country or faith of the country for washington, congress and the president couldn't be much lower. now, you have got the possibility that we are talking about here of 13 months more of pointing fingers at each other and accomplishing nothing. does this increase the viability and i talked about this briefly with governor huntsman of a third-party candidate? >> you know, this are plenty of people out there who think it does. i have to say i have always been skeptical of thirty parties. i would be especially skeptical of one headed by jon huntsman. if you wanted to have a third-party take off you would need a headliner, somebody like ross pa ro perot. i don't see a leader out there who would head it up. >> chris: check out panel plus where your group picks up with the discussion on our website
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>> chris: with thanksgiving over now christmas shopping season gets serious. last year we told you about one of washington's special women who makes items that folks love to give and receive. once again here is our power player of the week. >> i'm a designer at heart.
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this is something it seemed like an easy for me to do. >> chris: anne hand is talking about the beautiful jewelry she has created over the last two decades. celebrating american patriotic symbols, she calls it wearable history. what is remarkable how often her pins and neck lavss ever been part of history. >> i didn't know about a lot of these things until i see it on your show or in the newspaper. when it happens we're ecstatic. >> when madeleine albright was named secretary of state she wore the eagle pin. hand crosses the partisan divide. laura bush wore her necklace at a white house dinner. sarah palin wore hers with barbara walters. >> anne and lloyd hand came to
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washington in the 60s. lyndon johnson named him chief of protocol. >> it was a fairytale. we had a responsibility. >> they were one of washington's golden couples until 1988 until their son was hit by a car. she turned to make a jewelry as type of grief therapy. >> i would find myself working with beads and patterns long into the night. i would st out the rest of the word. >> friends starting buying items. in 2001 she opened her store. but for all that wear the creations, some are surprisingly affordable? >> this costs 150 department of justice. >> you can get a pin very much
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like what secretary clinton or first lady laura bush for $150? >> yep, absolutely. >> she has a special feeling for the military. the day we were there she and her granddaughter ashley were helping a member of the air force. she has created special pins for each branch of the armed services. she never planned to do an american collection, it just worked out that way. >> i realized this is what i want to do. i tell the story of america in silver and gold. >> if you are interested in what she has for sale this christmas, go to our website that is it for today. have a great week and we'll see you next fox news sunday.


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